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Author Topic: MOW tips... gimmick?!  (Read 22850 times)
riveraddict
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« on: July 22, 2010, 01:23:57 PM »

Apparently one blogger thinks so (Apocalypse Steelheader). Along with some of "his" viewers.
If you would like to see an example of some narrow-minded thinking and paranoia that the industry-is-out-to-get-ya, check it out! 
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HOOKED
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« Reply #1 on: July 23, 2010, 07:38:15 PM »

R A,
 I have yet to get any MOW's,but I will say they are on my short list.I have read all I can on them and it just makes sense.Quick change out ,same length,different depths.I am sure it is not for everybody,but for me I believe it is an other tool in my pack.Progression!Dont be afraid of it .Perhaps AS is still using a cane pole. Smiley

Scott
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camosled
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« Reply #2 on: July 26, 2010, 01:41:38 PM »

Great idea, the MOW tips.  We've been using modified tips like this for quite a while...If a caster can't adjust the power of their casting stroke to reduce the ripping of the anchor because there's less stick, then they might have bigger issues to take care of before ripping on MOW. 

JM


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bacon_to_fry
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« Reply #3 on: July 27, 2010, 01:08:33 PM »

ed, a few of us down here in p'oregon are mighty pissed you guys let the tiny tip secret outta the bag! let's all just hope the doubters stick to gang fishing the casterbator runs and leave the schnittles to those who'd actually employ a 7, 5 or—gasp– the 3 foot tip!

hope all's well.

and nice deal you got here, Cap'n.
« Last Edit: July 27, 2010, 01:21:14 PM by bacon_to_fry » Logged

seldom seen smith
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« Reply #4 on: July 27, 2010, 04:14:14 PM »

some people judge books by there covers , others actually open them and read.
i opened a dvd last winter and my life changed

you guys are doing wicked stuff! keep it up

apocalypse steelheader just wishes he was in a movie , and anywhere near as cool as Ed.

which supermodel are you dating?

bunch o hens on that site
i'd say just go fishin!!!

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SnapT
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« Reply #5 on: August 12, 2010, 02:51:48 AM »

A full set of T-11's should be in the mail as i write this, couldn't be more excited, unless it was a hardy perfect on the way...

-Travis
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riveraddict
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« Reply #6 on: August 13, 2010, 05:03:00 PM »

MOW tips, in depth.
First off, they are not the "end all, be all" in sinktip design. They ARE an additional tool to expand the horizons of angling with a fly beyond that of the "typical" 15' Type 1, 2, 3, etc., sinktip. To compare, the Type sinktips are generally fished with a standard wetfly swing, whereby the cast is made at around a 45 degree angle downstream, followed by an upstream mend to slow the progression of travel across stream. For this type of presentation, especially in the faster swingable currents, the Type tips excel. However, as one starts to make angles of presentation higher than a 45 degree line, that 15' length of Type sinktips displays enough exposure to underwater current as to cause a significant lateral bowing of that tip. For those of us that believe that "the most important aspect of steelhead flyfishing is presentation, presentation, presentation", followed by "presentation is a product of line/fly control", an 18' bow (sinktip plus 3' leader) in the line equates to loss of control (how many times when pulling on the line to free a snagged fly have you realized that the fly is snagged up farther upstream than you had thought?!?!). How to solve this circumstance? Replace the 15' Type tips with shorter sinktips - 2 1/2', 5', 7 1/2', 10' - of the fastest sink-rated material available, thus reducing cross sectional exposure of sunken line to underwater currents. This solution worked out very well in the upgrading-fly/line-control department, but it also introduced a problem in another department... casting consistency between the varying lengthed tips with waterborne casts sucked.The differences in the lengths of tips created varying amounts of anchor. No biggie, just splice in a section of floating line to equalize their lengths.    
« Last Edit: August 14, 2010, 10:45:44 AM by riveraddict » Logged

Whitey
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« Reply #7 on: August 13, 2010, 07:07:08 PM »

Well put my man!!! Well put!
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riveraddict
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« Reply #8 on: August 14, 2010, 11:11:12 AM »

Now then, keep in mind that equalizing the lengths of MOW tips with floating "transition" sections does not entirely eliminate a variance in anchor "stick" between the different MOW tips. What it does is minimize the difference down to a degree that is easily and viably adjusted for during on-stream angling situations, usually within just a few casts.

The same circumstance also goes for the concept of using shorter, very fast sinking tips to overcome lateral bowing of the tip - lateral bowing is not truly eliminated, but rather minimized down to a manageable level. The longest length of sinktip that displays "manageable bowing" for fishing a fly at swing angles greater than 45 degrees is around 10'. Longer than 10' and the "disconnect" of the angler to the fly is substantial enough to seriously affect angling success. This is easily "proven" for anyone out there that needs such proof - just go out on-stream with varying lengths of sinktip and and swing them as if actually fishing, but in areas where you know that you're going to snag up. Take note when snagging up as to how quickly (or slowly) the line actually straightens to the fly when "setting the hook" on the snag and how far upstream the fly snags from where you "thought" the fly was actually swinging. It is at around 10' of sunk line that lag time and line bow becomes significant enough to seriously affect angling capabilities.        
« Last Edit: August 14, 2010, 11:44:57 AM by riveraddict » Logged

riveraddict
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« Reply #9 on: August 14, 2010, 11:41:38 AM »

If 10' is around the longest length of sunk line that offers up controllable lateral bow for "high angle" swinging, then why does the RIO MOW kit include a 12' full-sink tip? Well, as in most aspects of fishing, there are "grey" areas, and in steelhead fly-swinging that would be those occasions where broad, deep runs of 5', 6', 7' depths, containing very EVEN and SOFT currents are encountered. This circumstance, because of the even and soft nature of the currents, will in fact allow the use of a longer-than-normal tip to be effectively fished with a high-angle swing. Thus, the inclusion of this tip into the MOW kit. This 12' tip can also be used in faster currents with a standard 45-down, wet-fly swing.

Hopefully, at this point of this post, a couple of implications about MOW tips have become apparent:
1 - MOW tips are meant to effectively fish a much higher angle of swing than standard Type tips.
2 - MOW tips are a shallow to medium depth water coverage angling tool.

And, not implied to this point, but of great importance:
3 - MOW tips are most effective when used with flies that sink as fast as or faster than the sinktip itself. Note that this DOES NOT dictate that flies MUST be weighted... there are plenty of fly designs that achieve high sink-rate through material use.
« Last Edit: August 14, 2010, 12:15:16 PM by riveraddict » Logged

riveraddict
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« Reply #10 on: August 14, 2010, 12:45:49 PM »

Now, it's time to get a bit technical. So, this reference needs to be established... 0 degrees refers to a line drawn straight downstream or down the river, and 90 degrees is straight across the river or perpendicular to the current. Low angles are those of 45 degrees or less, while high angles are those greater than 45 degrees. So, continueing on, the objective of the MOW tip concept - combining shorter lengths of very fast sinking line with fast sinking flies - is to achieve desired depth of the fly as IMMEDIATELY as possible, while being able to maintain precise contact and control with the fly. Bear in mind that the MOW tip/fly combo will sink quickly in a zero line tension status, will maintain its depth under a light line tension status, and because of its short length (relative to standard sinktips) will rise in the water column as tension on the line increases. So, in a "standard MOW presentation, the cast is made straight across the river at around 90 degrees and allowed to drift a few feet under zero tension so that the fly sinks immediately to fishing depth. When fishing depth is achieved, light tension is applied to establish contact with the fly and guide the fly. This light tension status is maintained for as long as the angler is able through rod and line manipulation. At some point of the swing, usually just prior to the fly reaching about a 45 degree angle downstream, rod and line manipulation is "used up" and the line comes under increasing tension from the current causing the fly to rise in the water column and to speed up in its rate of swing.    
« Last Edit: August 14, 2010, 12:48:49 PM by riveraddict » Logged

SnapT
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« Reply #11 on: August 14, 2010, 05:23:43 PM »

Wow, Ed, this is fantastic, keep it coming!
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camosled
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« Reply #12 on: August 14, 2010, 08:22:19 PM »

We just finished shooting on the N. Umpqua with Scott Howell and talked at great length about the application of these tips...We filmed underwater sequences of the fly dropping through the water column without tension vs with tension and it was obvious the applications these tips have in pockets and runs with a lot of structure, as long as you keep the tension light or none on the fly.    Cool stuff.

JM

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seldom seen smith
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« Reply #13 on: August 14, 2010, 09:13:01 PM »

ya that's wicked
thanks for the enlightenment RA
very curious though as to when the 2.5'er's  are go'in on??? would this not be h2o you could cover with a heavy fly and tapered leader??

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riveraddict
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« Reply #14 on: August 15, 2010, 10:23:31 AM »

If said presentation has been made in a "classic" type of steelhead run - fastest current in the middle and gradually decreasing in speed/strength towards shore, deepest in the middle and sloping up shallower towards shore -  with the fly landing on the near edge of the fastest current (not IN), then the swing "profile" of the MOW approach is for the fly to fish deepest/slowest during the first portion of the swing and shallowest/fastest during the latter part of the swing. This is substantially different from the swing profile of a standard Type-tip/standard wetfy-swing approach, which under the described scenario would fish fastest/shallowest at the beginning of its swing and then slow down and sink deeper as it swung into ever softer and softer inside currents. This example of the different swing profile of a MOW presentation from the standard Type-tip/standard wetfly-swing swing profile, should pretty well point out the circumstances where a MOW system would be more advantageous: in angling situations where critical fly speed and depth needs to be acquired in the first half of the swing, with the caveat that because the fast-sink-with-control attribute is best accomplished with sinking line portions of 10' or less, MOW's are limited to fly presentations of around 5' in depth or less.   
« Last Edit: August 15, 2010, 10:57:46 AM by riveraddict » Logged

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