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Skagit CM versus Scandi Touch and Go
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Author Topic: Skagit CM versus Scandi Touch and Go  (Read 2719 times)
justswingman
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« on: November 16, 2015, 10:35:32 AM »

I have read the topics on CM/CL Skagit style casting and am working hard to become better with that style when using Skagit heads and tips. My question is do you modify your casting stroke/style when using a Scandi head and performing a touch and go cast(single spy or snake roll), or even if using a water loaded cast with a scandi line? Should you still keep everything in the box with no or little lift, or do you have to modify your stroke some when using a scandi head? I read it is important to settle on one style (eg CM/CL), but for those of you that use that style, do you make adjustments when using a scandi head or performing a touch and go cast and if so what are they? Thanks for your help.
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camosled
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« Reply #1 on: November 16, 2015, 12:45:46 PM »

As skagit heads get shorter and shorter, it is even more important to keep your elbows down and the power application under control.  Too much too soon and you rip the anchor when using a short head. 

The Scandi style you refer to takes many forms.  Touch and go, underhand, 180.....I'm sure there are as many incarnations of scandi style casting as there are attempts to modify a CL/CM style cast.  When you use a scandi style line, the longer belly and different taper design requires a conscious setting of the D loop, which then requires a conscious pause, to let the line get behind the caster and form the proper D loop.  If the scandi head is sufficiently long, you will see casters raise their elbows to elevate the point of the D loop to keep the line off the water behind them.  Its a subtle float up, combined with a conscious raising of the rod tip during the early part of the turn over, prior to the forward stroke.  Then the forward stroke can begin with a downward drop of the elbows and a smooth change in the hands, creating a straight rod tip path, stopping abruptly at the end of the forward stroke.

So yes, this is very different than a continuous motion casting stroke used with short compact skagit style heads. 

All of the casting styles rely the same principles: Proper anchor placement.  Correct sweep into a pre turnover/forward cast position and then a smooth application of power through the entire process.  Scandi style casts break the power application into two parts; the power application into setting up the D Loop and Power application executing the forward stroke. 

CL/CM casts, ideally, retain one power application beginning at the start of the sweep, continuing through the end of the casting/forward stroke. 

The adjustments you are asking for are impossible to quantify here.  There are too many micro adjustments a caster makes to deal with the progression of the cast, combined with the impact of changing environmental conditions around the cast. This requires time on the water. Lots of time on the water.

Good Luck,

JM


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justswingman
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« Reply #2 on: November 16, 2015, 09:40:29 PM »

Thanks for the explanation. Just to clarify, so it is necessary to adjust your stroke (more lift, slight pause etc.) to develop your D-Loop and maintain the load when using a Scandi line or performing a touch and go cast. When using Skagit heads and sustained anchor casts using a CM/CL stroke is appropriate but make adjustments as noted when using Scandi heads and touch and go casts-is that correct?

Thanks for your help!
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camosled
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« Reply #3 on: November 17, 2015, 06:37:29 AM »

Yes.  There is a pause if you are trying to execute a scandi style cast. True Scandi lines are not incorporating a sink tip to build the "stick" of the fly line on the water to help with the development of power during the cast. The scandi leader is very long and the taper of the fly line is very different than a skagit line. For a 180 degree principle to work, you have to allow time for the line to get behind the caster. Touch and go is a timing issue where the leader/fly are at the surface and the length of the leader, and a bit of fly line create the tension at the anchor. You should view some clips on Youtube of true underhanded scandi casts.

True underhanded scandi casters use very little if any lift of the elbows. In fact, the top hand stays out of the process for the most part.

However, traditional style spey casters incorporate a lift in the elbows, or a press to the sky as I mentioned and most casters I see use a combination of a underhand and a more traditional spey cast style.  Very few actually use what I would call a CM/CL cast where the power application is smoothly applied beginning at the sweep then builds throughout the forward stroke.

I'm sure I've broken someone's rules by just talking about casting technique....


JM
 
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