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Author Topic: skagit head differences  (Read 1801 times)
MacSuibhne
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« on: November 20, 2012, 10:11:20 AM »

What's the difference...in terms of loading the rod (esp.), presentation, weight delivery, etc....between a Skagit short, Skagit compact, Skagit Flight and a Skagit rage, Beulah Tonic, and so forth?

Are there benefits/reasons to choose one over the other?

So far I've been using a Skagit short on my 7 wt Beulah plat. switch. But a Beulah rep suggested that the Tonic might load the rod better than the Short, and that got me to thinking about the Flight and the Compact.
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JDJones
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« Reply #1 on: November 20, 2012, 12:35:05 PM »

Could be the Beulah rep just wants to sell his lines.  Grin The Skagit flight, and other similar lines, have a longer front taper that terminates at a smaller dia. This shifts the weight further back towards the rod tip. They feel better & fly better, but they are limited in carrying capacity.
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MacSuibhne
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« Reply #2 on: November 20, 2012, 01:26:56 PM »

Could be the Beulah rep just wants to sell his lines.  Grin The Skagit flight, and other similar lines, have a longer front taper that terminates at a smaller dia. This shifts the weight further back towards the rod tip. They feel better & fly better, but they are limited in carrying capacity.

Thanks for the response.

So,  what are we talking about? 3" intruders vs 6 " intruders? How significant is that limitation relative to  any given head/rod setup?
« Last Edit: November 20, 2012, 01:29:46 PM by MacSuibhne » Logged

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JDJones
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« Reply #3 on: November 20, 2012, 04:25:40 PM »

Depends on the line, the sink tip, the size & design of the fly. If it works for you, OK. If it's giving you problems, then one has to question why.
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hyfly
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« Reply #4 on: November 20, 2012, 07:05:22 PM »

The Beulah and the Flight are much better at finer presentation with long leaders and dry flies due in part by their longer front taper. The Wullf Ambush is also a strong contender in that categorie. The only thing i find is that those type of head have a tendency to collapse faster wen you add heavy arsenal to them . If i fish small flies and or dries, like for Atlantic salmon i prefer them to a regular heads like shorts or compacts but will switch to them for heavy artillery.

Hyfly
« Last Edit: November 20, 2012, 07:06:29 PM by hyfly » Logged

MacSuibhne
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« Reply #5 on: November 20, 2012, 07:22:05 PM »

The Beulah and the Flight are much better at finer presentation with long leaders and dry flies due in part by their longer front taper. The Wullf Ambush is also a strong contender in that categorie. The only thing i find is that those type of head have a tendency to collapse faster wen you add heavy arsenal to them . If i fish small flies and or dries, like for Atlantic salmon i prefer them to a regular heads like shorts or compacts but will switch to them for heavy artillery.

Hyfly

Thanks for the reply...I have gotten the impression that a sink tip such as a Rio type 6 or8 or even an airflo sinking polyleader is counterproductive on the Rage. That tips might interfere with the way the  Rage will cast. The description of it sounds as if it is meant to be  a floater all the way and used "as is"--no tips need apply.

I wonder about the Flight and the Tonic though--they don't seem so specialized. And wonder if adding the above tips will affect the cast.

The Airflo compact seems an orphan almost. Longer than the Rio Short but at the same time maybe not constructed with the rod loading weight any further back than the Short.

Thoughts?
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G_Smolt
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« Reply #6 on: November 20, 2012, 08:52:47 PM »

I have gotten the impression that a sink tip such as a Rio type 6 or8 or even an airflo sinking polyleader is counterproductive on the Rage. That tips might interfere with the way the  Rage will cast. The description of it sounds as if it is meant to be  a floater all the way and used "as is"--no tips need apply.

I wonder about the Flight and the Tonic though--they don't seem so specialized. And wonder if adding the above tips will affect the cast.

The Airflo compact seems an orphan almost. Longer than the Rio Short but at the same time maybe not constructed with the rod loading weight any further back than the Short.

Thoughts?

While the use of VI or VIII tips is possible with the Rage, there are better lines with which to throw tips. Polyleaders (even x-super-fast) have very little impact on the castability of the Rage line.

The Tonic and the Flight (like other skagit lines) are designed to throw tips. The Rage was designed to throw floating or intermediate polyleaders, but one of the "happy accidents" of the Rage design is its ability to turn over much larger payloads than a scandi line while retaining some of the delicacy and pinpoint loop characteristics of that category. Having said that, there are better tools (read: lines) out there for throwing tips.


The Airflo Compact is still the King, IMO. If I am fishing tips on a 12'6"+ rod, you can bet that it is lined with that bad larry.



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MacSuibhne
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« Reply #7 on: November 20, 2012, 11:12:17 PM »


While the use of VI or VIII tips is possible with the Rage, there are better lines with which to throw tips. Polyleaders (even x-super-fast) have very little impact on the castability of the Rage line.

The Tonic and the Flight (like other skagit lines) are designed to throw tips. The Rage was designed to throw floating or intermediate polyleaders, but one of the "happy accidents" of the Rage design is its ability to turn over much larger payloads than a scandi line while retaining some of the delicacy and pinpoint loop characteristics of that category. Having said that, there are better tools (read: lines) out there for throwing tips.


The Airflo Compact is still the King, IMO. If I am fishing tips on a 12'6"+ rod, you can bet that it is lined with that bad larry.


That's very interesting and helpful. Thank you.

I tell you what I've got going....I have a Beulah Platinum Switch 7wt. It's my Deschutes rod.. But I also want to use it for fishing the swing  and for skating/skoppers. So being able to cast a slow sinking, maybe even fast sinking, polyleader with traditionally dressed flies and unweighted tubes, as well as skoppers on a floating tip would suit me just fine. I have another rod for getting deep.

I wasn't sure that the Rage would fit the bill but it sounds like I couldn't go wrong with it or the Flight. I have an Airflo Compact for my spey rod.

Thanks again...I appreciate your input.
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camosled
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« Reply #8 on: November 27, 2012, 05:05:57 PM »

The Beulah and the Flight are much better at finer presentation with long leaders and dry flies due in part by their longer front taper. The Wullf Ambush is also a strong contender in that categorie. The only thing i find is that those type of head have a tendency to collapse faster wen you add heavy arsenal to them . If i fish small flies and or dries, like for Atlantic salmon i prefer them to a regular heads like shorts or compacts but will switch to them for heavy artillery.

Hyfly

The Skagit Flight is not a line for dry flies....

It's Rio's version of a compact skagit line for chucking big flies and heavy tips.  Not sure what you're referring to there.  Rio does make a wonderful steelhead scandi line.  Airlfo makes the Rage and the Compact Scandi. 
If you want positive turnover, any compact skagit head will work as long as your sink tip isn't too heavy and loaded with a dead chicken.  If you have issues with turn over, stop the forward stroke abruptly and try a shorter sink tip.  Think Scandi lines/small flies.  Skagit style heads/heavy stuff.

JM

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hyfly
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« Reply #9 on: November 27, 2012, 06:45:55 PM »

At 26 feet i dont consider it as a compact. I also use a rather low end weight for my type of casting and it adds to a finer presentation,at least the salmons seem to agree.

Hyfly
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